Reconciling Risk v Reward of Piping

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houtenziel
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Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:16 am

Kevin Keith wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:34 am
I don't worry about it.
This.
Lets say I did contract some form of cancer, or had tooth loss, or gum disease, or my head imploded, or whatever other supposed assured form of tobacco related destruction. I would never logically conclude that tobacco was the actual cause. As sisyphus said, we are exposed to so many vectors for all these diseases - Food(not just processed, but also anything that has been smoked/browned/charred.. say toast or BBQ), ever present industrial pollution, cell phone radiation, standing with my face pressed against the microwave watching my food cooking, prescription medications, alcohol consumption.. I've met a lot of anti-tobacco folks who wouldn't give a second thought to having a regular beer or a glass of whiskey. They've got just as much evidence that it causes esophageal and pancreatic cancer, along with a host of other issues.. I am also pretty sure a tobacco addiction statistically destroys less families, and kills less innocent bystanders (see *Alcoholism, *DUI Accident related deaths).
The bottom line is that none of it really matters. There is no risk/reward, as I wouldn't live my life at all if I made those sorts of calculations, because the risks virtually always outweigh the rewards if you think on a big enough scale. The odds of me dying in a car crash are astronomically higher than me dying from pipe smoking, or cigar smoking, cigarette smoking, or drinking, even if you combine them all - Yet, I still get into the car every day.
The only reason that people consider risk/reward so frequently and specifically with tobacco, is that there is a very public agenda against it, and social consequences for not obeying. Tally up those tobacco deaths with deaths related to automobiles, and do you think anyone would change their agenda on getting to work in a timely manner? You think the "Truth" people would stage anti-car scenes downtown with a bunch of people mowed down by a rogue Subaru? We humans are the masters at convenience moralism.

Live your life while you can.
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OfPipeAndPen
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Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:24 am

Middle Earth wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:48 am
If you smoke a pipe and do not drink, the "risk" is essentially zero at three or less pipefuls a day.
Can you cite this claim? Asking because I found this study on pipe smoking exclusively and there don't seem to be many others like it. I'd like to educate myself. https://academic.oup.com/jnci/article/96/11/853/2520796
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Bruyere_RoyaleMiddle EarthMikeDennisonGrimpeur
“Nowhere in the world will such a brotherly feeling of confidence be experienced as amongst those who sit together smoking their pipes.”
- The Results and Merits of Tobacco, 1844, Doctor Barnstein
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OfPipeAndPen
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Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:28 am

houtenziel wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:16 am
Kevin Keith wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:34 am
I don't worry about it.
This.
Lets say I did contract some form of cancer, or had tooth loss, or gum disease, or my head imploded, or whatever other supposed assured form of tobacco related destruction. I would never logically conclude that tobacco was the actual cause. As sisyphus said, we are exposed to so many vectors for all these diseases - Food(not just processed, but also anything that has been smoked/browned/charred.. say toast or BBQ), ever present industrial pollution, cell phone radiation, standing with my face pressed against the microwave watching my food cooking, prescription medications, alcohol consumption.. I've met a lot of anti-tobacco folks who wouldn't give a second thought to having a regular beer or a glass of whiskey. They've got just as much evidence that it causes esophageal and pancreatic cancer, along with a host of other issues.. I am also pretty sure a tobacco addiction statistically destroys less families, and kills less innocent bystanders (see *Alcoholism, *DUI Accident related deaths).
The bottom line is that none of it really matters. There is no risk/reward, as I wouldn't live my life at all if I made those sorts of calculations, because the risks virtually always outweigh the rewards if you think on a big enough scale. The odds of me dying in a car crash are astronomically higher than me dying from pipe smoking, or cigar smoking, cigarette smoking, or drinking, even if you combine them all - Yet, I still get into the car every day.
The only reason that people consider risk/reward so frequently and specifically with tobacco, is that there is a very public agenda against it, and social consequences for not obeying. Tally up those tobacco deaths with deaths related to automobiles, and do you think anyone would change their agenda on getting to work in a timely manner? You think the "Truth" people would stage anti-car scenes downtown with a bunch of people mowed down by a rogue Subaru? We humans are the masters at convenience moralism.

Live your life while you can.
Convenience moralism, I like that.

The social stigmatization is what I'm bothered by. That and my wife's opinion 😂
This post by OfPipeAndPen liked by (total 5):
houtenzielBruyere_RoyaleMiddle EarthMikeDennisonGrimpeur
“Nowhere in the world will such a brotherly feeling of confidence be experienced as amongst those who sit together smoking their pipes.”
- The Results and Merits of Tobacco, 1844, Doctor Barnstein
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Bruyere_Royale
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Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:36 am

OfPipeAndPen wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:24 am
Middle Earth wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:48 am
If you smoke a pipe and do not drink, the "risk" is essentially zero at three or less pipefuls a day.
Can you cite this claim? Asking because I found this study on pipe smoking exclusively and there don't seem to be many others like it. I'd like to educate myself. https://academic.oup.com/jnci/article/96/11/853/2520796
This to me reads more like a business plan for a pharmaceutical company than anything else.
Their result study started off with pipe smokers are of higher intelligence than non smokers gave me a giggle. Lol...
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Tsal...
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Bruyere_Royale
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Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:40 am

OfPipeAndPen wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:28 am
houtenziel wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:16 am
Kevin Keith wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:34 am
I don't worry about it.
This.
Lets say I did contract some form of cancer, or had tooth loss, or gum disease, or my head imploded, or whatever other supposed assured form of tobacco related destruction. I would never logically conclude that tobacco was the actual cause. As sisyphus said, we are exposed to so many vectors for all these diseases - Food(not just processed, but also anything that has been smoked/browned/charred.. say toast or BBQ), ever present industrial pollution, cell phone radiation, standing with my face pressed against the microwave watching my food cooking, prescription medications, alcohol consumption.. I've met a lot of anti-tobacco folks who wouldn't give a second thought to having a regular beer or a glass of whiskey. They've got just as much evidence that it causes esophageal and pancreatic cancer, along with a host of other issues.. I am also pretty sure a tobacco addiction statistically destroys less families, and kills less innocent bystanders (see *Alcoholism, *DUI Accident related deaths).
The bottom line is that none of it really matters. There is no risk/reward, as I wouldn't live my life at all if I made those sorts of calculations, because the risks virtually always outweigh the rewards if you think on a big enough scale. The odds of me dying in a car crash are astronomically higher than me dying from pipe smoking, or cigar smoking, cigarette smoking, or drinking, even if you combine them all - Yet, I still get into the car every day.
The only reason that people consider risk/reward so frequently and specifically with tobacco, is that there is a very public agenda against it, and social consequences for not obeying. Tally up those tobacco deaths with deaths related to automobiles, and do you think anyone would change their agenda on getting to work in a timely manner? You think the "Truth" people would stage anti-car scenes downtown with a bunch of people mowed down by a rogue Subaru? We humans are the masters at convenience moralism.

Live your life while you can.
Convenience moralism, I like that.

The social stigmatization is what I'm bothered by. That and my wife's opinion 😂
I wouldn't worry about the social aspect of smoking. If your happy that's all that really matters. Stay smokey...💨💨
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Tsal...
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Fr_Tom
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Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:27 am

Bruyere_Royale wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:40 am
OfPipeAndPen wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:28 am

The social stigmatization is what I'm bothered by. That and my wife's opinion 😂
I wouldn't worry about the social aspect of smoking. If your happy that's all that really matters. Stay smokey...💨💨
The social thing is real. Different areas are more or less "progressive" with this. I smoke in the office at church. In some places I would not be able to do this, but then I would not be in the office so much. I smoke in the car and when I walk to the post office. There is not much social stigma here, and I am of an age where I am not really worried if there is.

My wife is (also) an Episcopal priest. She is in another parish. We hear a lot of strife in families caused by various issues. My wife observes that husbands and wives sometimes do really stupid things, and we have seen the range of stupidity. She looks at me through this lens.

I bring my paychecks home. I don't lose the mortgage at the craps game in the liquor store parking lot. I don't come home drunk or have anger management issues. I am not hitting on the intern in HR. Pipe smoking is a reasonably respectable "vice-like" activity. I am outrageously cheap by nature, and so it is not like I blow through wads of money buying artisan pipes.

As a positive, she always has something to get me for my birthday off the wish list at smokingpipes.
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oldbill
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Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:50 am

Last March 3rd I was T-boned in an intersection at 5:45 in the morning by a yo-yo driving with no license. Half of the bones in my upper body were broken, I had multiple soft tissue tears and both lungs were partially collapsed. While I was in the hospital, my attending physician pointed to the drain tube that had been inserted into my chest and told me that had I been out on a dark country road instead of in the middle of a busy area of town I probably would have died from drowning in my own bodily fluids and the take away from all this for me is that I can die at ANY time.
I eat what I want, I drink what I want and I ENJOY the things and people that I love because I'm keenly aware that I have an expiration date but in the mean time I will reap all of the benefits that life has to offer, including a good pipe from time to time. ;)
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... and you can put that in your pipe and smoke it!!!
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Middle Earth
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Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:52 am

OfPipeAndPen wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:24 am
Middle Earth wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:48 am
If you smoke a pipe and do not drink, the "risk" is essentially zero at three or less pipefuls a day.
Can you cite this claim? Asking because I found this study on pipe smoking exclusively and there don't seem to be many others like it. I'd like to educate myself. https://academic.oup.com/jnci/article/96/11/853/2520796
Yes, that is the source. Study tables #3 and #5. The big issue, as noted in the study, primarily related to "throat" cancer, especially north of three pipes a day.
Current pipe smokers and no alcohol essentially no increased risk.
Current pipe smokers and 1 to 3 drinks a day and you jump to 15.
That is a huge increase and, discussed in the study, which seems both comprehensive and definitive. The breadth and scope is huge and focused on pipe smoking.
There are a lot of ways to enjoy your free time and treasure. So pick things that bring you peaceful joy and happiness.
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avid
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Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:07 pm

on a somewhat related note, i noticed that for some reason the health insurance reps have re-phrased the obligatory question to, "have you used tobacco more than four times per week in the last six months?"

have no idea what's up with that
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Bruyere_Royale
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Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:18 pm

Fr_Tom wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:27 am
Bruyere_Royale wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:40 am
OfPipeAndPen wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:28 am

The social stigmatization is what I'm bothered by. That and my wife's opinion 😂
I wouldn't worry about the social aspect of smoking. If your happy that's all that really matters. Stay smokey...💨💨
The social thing is real. Different areas are more or less "progressive" with this. I smoke in the office at church. In some places I would not be able to do this, but then I would not be in the office so much. I smoke in the car and when I walk to the post office. There is not much social stigma here, and I am of an age where I am not really worried if there is.

My wife is (also) an Episcopal priest. She is in another parish. We hear a lot of strife in families caused by various issues. My wife observes that husbands and wives sometimes do really stupid things, and we have seen the range of stupidity. She looks at me through this lens.

I bring my paychecks home. I don't lose the mortgage at the craps game in the liquor store parking lot. I don't come home drunk or have anger management issues. I am not hitting on the intern in HR. Pipe smoking is a reasonably respectable "vice-like" activity. I am outrageously cheap by nature, and so it is not like I blow through wads of money buying artisan pipes.

As a positive, she always has something to get me for my birthday off the wish list at smokingpipes.
I'm not saying it isn't real, I was leaning more towards the anti-smoker controlists. My situation is rather different because I work alone and basically my own boss, I'm really unaffected by the social stigma.
I blew through wads of money on artisan pipes and I can tell you that I have learned my lesson!
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